People-centered culture: Creating a great experience for employees

People-centered culture: Creating a great experience for employees with Barbie Winterbottom

Building a culture of trust through authenticity and transparency

I'm excited that you are joining me for another great interview to inspire ideas, motivation, action and change in you as we are all on this journey to develop talent and change the working world. My interview is with Barbie Winterbottom, who is the Chief People Officer of BIC Graphic. She’s a strategic and insightful leader known for growing strong talent and fostering people-first cultures. Barbie thinks big and delivers powerful solutions to complex and often difficult business, people, and cultural challenges. With deep roots in talent acquisition, recruitment, marketing, and its ties to culture, Barbie understands and drives the needed awareness and alignment between what she believes is the trifecta of employee happiness, belonging, brand, culture, and purpose.

We talk a lot about the culture and employee experience. Two things that I'm passionate about that are important and don't get talked about enough, especially, how to create those great things in your organizations. We also talked about how Barbie and her team have handled things under the COVID-19 pandemic with working remotely. They've had to do a series of layoffs before we conducted this interview. I thought it'd be interesting to get into that as well on how they've handled that and make the best of things and create a great employee experience for those that are staying. We talked about the importance of transparency and empathy, all of those things. If you read this, I hope you will get some ideas. Get your pencil, paper, and get ready. Here's my interview with Barbie Winterbottom, Chief People Officer of BIC Graphic.

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I'm excited to be joined by Barbie Winterbottom, who is the Chief People Officer of BIC Graphic, as well as a keynote speaker and culture whisperer. Barbie, welcome to the show.

Thanks for having me. It's good to be here.

It’s reat to have you on and I hope we're able to pull this interview off. We were chatting about how we're both dealing with challenging issues with our children, pets and various things disrupting our workdays. I'm sure many of our readers can relate to that. If you have children, spouses, pets at home that you're not used to working with disrupting your day, we're dealing with that stuff too. We're getting through it. Having that experience also provides you with a lot more empathy for what all of your people are going through, right?

It's true. If we would have rewind months ago during a conference call, if a dog started barking, a cat parades across the street or a kid walks in, someone might be mortified. Now, it's a normal course of business. It's certainly humanized this video experience a bit more because we have no choice. A woman posted a Facebook video, this woman got out of the shower, walked to get her clothes, didn't know her kid was sitting on her bed in a Zoom meeting with all of her friends. It's hilarious. My heart went out to her. It's entertaining, but it could happen to any of us at any time these days.

This setup, my kids are barging into my office all the time. I've got the printer in here and my wife or kids will print something and come in while I'm in the middle of an interview and don’t even think about the fact that I might be on video. We're all dealing with it. We're all getting through it. I agree with you, it has completely changed the world of work. It's made it more acceptable and personal. We're connecting on a more of a personal level, getting to know our friends and our colleagues better, seeing their workplaces, their kids, their dogs and cats, and all that stuff. It's a cool side effect or silver lining of all of this under COVID-19. Let's take a step back and I want to introduce you, Barbie, and talk about some of the work that you're doing. Tell us a little bit about you and how you got to where you are?

As the Chief People Officer at BIC Graphic, I joined the organization some years ago. They had come out of being purchased by a PE firm. The organization was previously owned by the BIC Corporation. People know them, BIC pens, lighters, razors, a large global organization. Our division is the promotional product side. I came into an organization that had been through some significant disruption and trying to figure out who they were. It's been a great time helping craft the new culture of this organization.

Prior to that, my experiences include working in some of the world's largest organizations. I have some deep experience in the talent acquisition space. I started my career in TA and then expanded into the overall space of HR. There's always been a passion for me to connect the dots between the marketing side of TA. We don't call it that much anymore, now it's your brand. The employer brand, employee purpose and product have to align.

It's been exciting for me to see how the world is starting to make those connections and connect the dots. I've spent many of my years building that lifecycle from attraction to onboarding to performance to culture and even exiting people. Exiting people is as important to do with dignity and respect and make sure that the values you profess are the lifeline that strings all of that together. That's where my passion lies, it’s making sure that we are authentically who we say we are, and that those themes live throughout an employee's experience.

People-Centered Culture: HR tech eases processes, but it doesn’t replace human connection.

I wanted to talk about trust and culture. We can start with that idea of employee experience. It’s one of my favorite topics. I love when I hear organizations that are creating that entire experience, thinking about what the entire experience looks like from beginning to end. Can you talk a little bit more about how you make sure that the talent acquisition process is aligned with the onboarding, the development process and then creates a great experience, all the way through them potentially leaving the company as well?

For me and my teams, we spent a lot of time thoughtfully looking at all of those components. What bubbles up to the top each and every time is the humanized experience. I have a lot of friends who represent phenomenal HR tech companies. My disclaimer is I am in no way bashing HR tech. We all need it, we use it, it helps provide amazing data, it eases processes and all of the wonderful things we know it does. What it doesn't do is replace human connection.

I have spent quite a bit of time making sure that the messages and the experiences never lose that human touch. Where some organizations tend to go a little off the path is they get so married to the technology or the ease of automation and we can do it better and faster. Maybe that's true, you can certainly do it faster, but I'm not sure better when you look at the entire experience. Ensuring that those human touches are still happening throughout that entire process is important.

For me, and I believe for most people, culture isn't a thing that you get to. It's not, “When we do this, we're going to have a culture.” Whether you want to accept it or not, you have a culture. It may not be the one you want, but you have a culture. How do you reflect that culture? It's in every conversation, touchpoint, email, and interaction is a reflection of your organization's culture. At least it is through the lens of the people having that interaction.

That's where it lives when you think about talent acquisition and attraction. Those beautiful billboards, those slick ads you might see on social media or the job boards or wherever you might see them, that's the first glimpse, but what's behind that? Does it align with what's happening behind those doors or once you walk through those doors? We spend a lot of time making sure that those pieces are well-connected.

It's like customer experience. You see there are companies that invest so much money in marketing, cable, phone, airline companies, or whatever comes to mind. It’s all this money about how great it is. It looks so great and then you go through the actual experience, you're like, “This is not what I saw on the billboard. Why am I on hold for an hour, or getting kicked off at this plane or whatever? This is not what I see in the commercials.”

I have this conversation with most of the people who are new to my team. After COVID, a lot of our retail brands are struggling, this is not a slam towards any of them. I would say, “There's a place in the world and the marketplace for Walmart. There's a place in the marketplace for Neiman Marcus, Barneys, Harrods, or wherever you choose. If you're going to be Walmart, be Walmart. You're the low-price leader, you have bulk items, and you don't have a lot of expectations about service and hand-holding and that type of thing. There's a place for that.” “If you're going to be Neiman Marcus, you better have the experience that supports that. Don't say you're Neiman and sell Walmart product and Walmart experience and vice versa. Don't expect someone to walk into Walmart and have a price point that is unattainable for that person. Neither one is better than the other, just live it, be it so people know what to expect.” It's no different when you think about the employer space.

It's interesting, I've been writing and publishing a bit on LinkedIn and some other channels. I have yet to publish this particular piece but in it, I'm talking about as employers, we tend to see our employees in one dimension. We see them as an employee, or as a resource to production or a resource to an end. The reality is we are whole people. We live whole lives outside of our jobs. We are also consumers. We are out there doing all the things consumers do. Yet, when we come into work, we often treat them in a completely different way.

We don't see them as consumers, but we are. We're customers. We are internal customers. I stress to my teams, my peers, and colleagues, we have to start looking at our employees as internal customers and treat them the same way we would treat them if we were a retail brand and they were walking into our store or buying from us online. The experience is similar. If we don't get there, we're going to lose them. More and more organizations are starting to recognize that.

Maybe not in the middle of this pandemic, but it's easier than ever for employees to leave if they get frustrated or they don't like the experience. They’ll just go on LinkedIn, Twitter or anywhere and see what your friends are doing and then go apply for a job there. Some months ago, the unemployment rate was at an all-time low, you could always go get a job somewhere else. It's a little more challenging now.

Speaking of that, we're talking about the whole lifecycle and the challenging times we're in. You mentioned from hiring all the way through employees exiting the business and you as a Chief People Officer have gotten through a challenging time in letting people go for your organization, as many people have. I've spoken with several heads of HR and different executives who have dealt with this. You probably can't share everything, but I'm wondering, how did you approach that to make sure that was done well and people still had a great experience as they were walking out the door?

I would say great experience, in that case, is relative and with respect to the person.

Maybe the wrong words, but it wasn't as a traumatic experience as it could be.

[bctt tweet="If you expect people to trust you, you have to trust yourself first." via="no"]

We're doing our best to give people the dignity and respect they deserve. We have several different types of actions that we've taken. We've done layoffs and furloughs, we've had some salary reductions, we've had some reduced hours. We tried to adapt based on the business need and that particular functions need to continue whatever it is that they need to continue. We have opened up communication channels in ways that we never had before. We quickly stood up a COVID-19 hub, where we placed information minute by minute as it was coming out, connecting people to the CDC website and the World Health Organization website. We told the story of how it applies to them as an employee. What does that mean for them as an employee of our organization, and what are we going to do to support them?

As we went through the layoffs or the decision that we were going to have to start doing layoffs, we built and published a layoff hub, “Here’s all the information you may need to access unemployment benefits. Here's what it means to be laid off or to be furloughed. Here are documents you may be asked to produce for information.” We also put up a work from home hub because a large portion of our employees who had never worked from home are now working from home.

There are emotional responses people may not expect like feeling isolated and disconnected. Some people deal with depression in that space. On top of that, their children are home, their spouse or partners may be there. There's a whole host of emotions that are happening for people. We tried to put those resources out there. We also put up an employee-only Facebook group. I shouldn't be surprised, but I guess I still am surprised at how interactive people are with that particular tool. I personally go on there pretty frequently and connect with people and in a different way. It's been great. Some employees I may never have had a conversation with in different states, different parts of the world. I get to talk to them one on one in that forum. It's fun.

That's cool, I hadn't heard that. I'm curious, the Facebook group, to clarify, is that through Facebook for work or is that a regular group?

It is a regular Facebook page, it's private. We make sure only employees are on there. Even if they've been laid off, we allow them to join because we hope that we'll be able to call them back. We wanted to create a medium where we could stay in touch with people and give them updates. We have implemented doing a weekly town hall. We do it through Zoom every Wednesday. I typically present along with the CEO and some of the other executives. We post a link and we put it out there for people. We put it on the hub so they can get it. They can watch it and they know what's going on in the business.

In our space, which is perhaps not like others, we have a large portion of our employees who are in the manufacturing area. Just because the world is opening back up, as slow as it might be, doesn't mean we can bring employees back right away. Having permission to open a business back up is one thing, but having sales volume and product orders is another. We want to be as transparent as we can be with our employees to say, “We will bring people back as soon as we possibly can, but we don't know when that's going to be.”

We've even posted links to employers who are hiring. It's the right thing to do for people, they need to pay their bills. I would hope that when we do start bringing people back and hiring again, they'll remember that we were kind and we did everything we could to support them through this. They may not and that's okay too. They have to make decisions for their families and themselves. We completely support and respect that, but we've tried to give them as many resources as possible.

I love that you've given all the resources, that there's so much communication, so much transparency. As I have been studying this and talking to many people about how to lead effectively during these times, communication, empathy, trust, and transparency keeps coming up over and over again. Someone told me, another talent executive I was speaking with said that we're living in an age of hyper transparency. It’s important to be transparent because as soon as you stop communicating, that's when the imagination starts to wander. Is there going to be another round of layoffs? Are we going to be able to return back to work? Is the company going to survive? All the questions that people start to ask and they start worrying. You then lose control.

It's a mantra of most HR people. In the absence of information, what do people do? They make it up. You better give them as much as you possibly can. There's information that you can't always share, but be as transparent and forthright as possible. When people ask questions you can't answer, give them that answer. “I'm sorry, I can't answer that right now.” Instead of making something up or being evasive. Simply let them know. “I'm not able to answer that for you now.”

Related to that, you've posted a few times recently on LinkedIn about the topic of trust. You've gotten some great feedback and engagement on those. I’m wondering if you could summarize what's been your philosophy on building trust in the workplace? What reactions have you got to that?

I got great reactions. I posted 4 or 5 different videos on it. First and foremost, it’s authenticity and be yourself. People who know me and work with me could attest to that. I'm always the same person. Whether you see me in the grocery store or giving a keynote address at an executive roundtable, it's me. That doesn't mean that we don't have an executive presence when we need to. It doesn't mean we're not reading audiences. There are nuances to your communication styles, you adapt to your scenario, situation, and audience, but it doesn't mean that I move away from my values and the core of who I am. That comes with me no matter where or what situation or to whom I'm speaking. Authenticity is key for me.

Transparency is important, but that goes along with the authenticity piece quite a bit. I posted the video on trusting your instincts and your gut. We often think about trust in relation to the employer and the employee, and what building that relationship of trust looks like. I also believe that if you expect people to trust you, you have to trust yourself first. You have instincts for a reason, your gut never lies, and I fully believe that.

People-Centered Culture: We have to start looking at our employees as internal customers and treat them the same way we would our customers if we were a retail brand.

There are little messages you get from the universe, from the world, whatever your belief system is. Oprah, many years ago, was quoted as saying, “First, it starts as a whisper.” Maybe it's something you saw quickly as you were scanning the internet or an article, and the headline caught your attention. Maybe a few days later, something else pops up around that same issue or topic, a conversation in passing, but all of a sudden, a theme starts to arise. You get that feeling in your gut and your conscience is telling you to pay attention. Trusting that and then taking the appropriate action is incredibly important.

When we do that, and we come forward with the courage sometimes it takes to do that, people will start to believe you and you are who you say you are. You're willing to take those risks because you know it's the right thing to do. In doing that, I shared some stories about domestic violence and child abuse, and how those statistics are on the rise during COVID-19. I, myself, was a child who witnessed quite a bit of domestic violence in my household. I know how scary that can be. We've got to start talking about it as employers when you think about the context of all these people being in the same space and nobody can leave.

In the past, victims could perhaps make a phone call for help. They can't do that anymore because the abuser is right there, hearing and listening to everything that's going on. Giving them permission to say, “Send me an email.” It will look like you're working, but send me an email if you need assistance is another way as an employer. We can provide support and help to employees. We talked about that a little bit.

That's a serious topic, but I can see how that can be way up. People are confined in small spaces and getting on each other's nerves. Getting frustrated and it exacerbates. I've seen it in my own house. I don't want to make light of this, but my children were practically killing each other. They're kids, but if adults go over the edge, bad things can happen. You want to make sure people have a place where they can reach out or feel comfortable reaching out if they need help if they're in a bad situation. You talked about starting with building trust, being authentic, and being open. I like what you said, I wrote down your quote, “iIf you expect people to trust you, you have to trust yourself first.”

It's true. Sometimes, it takes us a while. When we're early in our career, we're the sponge. We're absorbing, observing, and watching. We don't want to miss steps so we can often second guess ourselves and we won't take those steps. As we have more experiences and we start to gain a little bit of confidence, we have to start paying attention to that more and more. Trust that that instinct is telling you something for a reason. Some of us come into that space much sooner than others, but I do believe it serves you well when you do pay attention.

One of the things I wanted to ask you about, Barbie, was when we talked previously, you mentioned a leadership development program you put together. You talked about using some content from Brené Brown. I was curious about what does the program you put together looks like? What is the content you used? How has that worked out?

I am a huge evangelist of Dr. Brown. On my vision board is to meet her one day. I am incredibly grateful for the work she does and how she shares it with the rest of us. Our organization was purchased by PE firm some years ago. We've been going through a lot of change over quite an extended period of time. We put together a leadership program specifically around change in the workplace, and what does it mean? How do we facilitate change so that we get the best result?

We tried to illustrate the difference between change management and change leadership. By using a lot of Brené’s content, what we put together first was read the book, Dare to Lead. We then have the sessions. We talked about how change management is the external force of what's happening. Maybe we're implementing a new system where it's a new process, it's a new tool. That's something that's from the outside in.

Change leadership is from the inside out. It's how do we influence the people within the organization to adapt or adopt this change, which is not only the technical aspects of using the tool, the process of this system but the behavioral components of making that part of our standard work. It's part of our lives now, it's part of who we are and what we do. We’re deep diving into what holds people back from adapting or adopting to change.

[bctt tweet="You manage a process; you lead people." via="no"]

We also weave in Kotter’s model, which is a well-known and standard change management model. They can work together well as long as you understand the difference. One of the phrases I use a lot is, “You manage a process. You lead people.” Helping our people and our leaders understand the difference between the two, and how when you do that the right way, the synergistic relationship lifts everyone. You can accelerate the pace with which people do adapt and adopt their behaviors when they understand the difference. It does take time, it takes courage. Leaders have to be ready, self-aware, and vulnerable enough when they have fear. You have to make a safe space for that to happen. This session does that for people. We've gotten great feedback.

Did you build the whole thing internally using that content?

Yes. Using her content, some Kotter’s content and a lot of other research and experiences. I personally facilitate the session. I don't typically do that, we do have an amazing internal leadership and development team, but this particular session, we feel strongly enough. I feel strongly enough that I personally want to be there to help people understand how important this component is. One thing that will define leaders of the future and a core behavior is adaptability. Beyond anything, COVID has shown that to be a true statement. How quickly we've all had to pivot and adapt and pivot again. Figure it out as we go. Leaders rise to the top when they have the ability to do that and not lose sight of everything else that's going on. Maybe doing it and applying their skills in a different way. Adaptability is going to be at the forefront of what organizations need from leaders going forward.

The organizations, the leaders who address the challenges, adapt, and pivot are the ones who can be set up more for success in the long run. I'm making all kinds of adaptations and pivoting like crazy during this pandemic. From January, February 2020, I was running a lot of in-person workshops, everything I offer is virtual. We needed to convert some things to virtual. The clients that are running are loving it. They're saving money on travel and other things that come with it. There are always silver linings to these things and who knows what the future will bring. It's cool that you mentioned that because it is so important that organizations and I see a lot of companies that are pivoting well. Shifting to you, Barbie. What's been your greatest accomplishment or maybe the proudest moment in your career so far?

The proudest moments happen when I see my teams succeed, either a direct report of mine or a team that reports up through me. When they knock it out of the park and I see them growing, developing, challenging each other and challenging their leadership, that is rewarding to me. I love watching my people develop and grow and move into new roles. Sometimes, they move into roles outside of my team. That's great too because it's what's best for them. I find that the most rewarding part of what I do.

Second to that would be when you are truly able to influence the trajectory of an organization and foster a healthy culture. I see that unfolding where we are now. It's a great feeling to know that you had something to do with that. Certainly, every individual within the organization has ownership in making that come to life, but being on the forefront of driving it and helping to craft, this is what we'd like it to be and this is how we would like it to happen and then seeing it take hold is rewarding.

On flipside, what's been one of your biggest failures or mistakes in your career? What did you learn from it?

There are so many. One of the things I think about, I had joined an organization. My first meeting with my new coworkers and I came in because I knew everything at that point. I was the hotshot new hire brought in to turn around disfunction. I went into this meeting with guns blazing because I was going to teach them something. You can imagine that went south quickly. It took years to build relationships with some of the people who were in that particular meeting. Looking back, I was like, “You were an ass. You went in there telling them how wrong they were about everything they were doing.” Recognizing that it might not be the best approach has been a learning for me and understanding that everyone brings value. They may do it differently than you do. There are things that you're brought in for a reason. You may be a change agent, and I'm typically brought in for that reason but there are ways you can do it that leave people with dignity and help them feel valued.

Your job is to influence them so that the change becomes their idea and they don't feel as though you are imposing it upon them. You are bringing them along and then all of a sudden, they start understanding it. They start driving it faster than you ever could. That was a big lesson for me, leave your ego outside, and recognize that you don't know everything. There's a lot of value in every single person's contributions.

I appreciate you sharing that. Sometimes, people gloss over the mistakes that they've made. That's such a good one. One that a lot of people have probably made. When I've studied and given talks about modern leadership, I talk about and I stole this idea from Liz Wiseman and her book Multipliers, the greatest leaders lead with curiosity. It's always important to ask questions before you start giving answers. We've all made that mistake. We’re like, “I know what I'm going to say to come in here. I'm going to prove myself and add value right away before asking questions and finding out what the situation is and where people are coming from.” I appreciate you sharing that so others can learn from it. Is there a trend that you're following in talent development that's been particularly interesting?

People-Centered Culture: Be as transparent and forthright as possible. When people ask questions you can’t answer, tell them you can’t answer.

It's a lot of what we talked about. It’s that talent development is not a one size fits all. For people who follow their passion will help drive their success, which connects directly to that authenticity piece. Not chasing a job or a career because of the paycheck or because of the esteem you think it will bring you. Follow where your heart leads you because we are whole people. What we do impacts every aspect of our lives. If you're not authentically following your dreams or your passion, it will come through. Those people who go to work every day and they're miserable are likely not following something that they have their heart in. It doesn't mean that it's the only thing you love. I have passions outside of the work I do in the people space. I am a musician. There are lots of different things that I love in my life but this is another component of what I love. If I didn't, I couldn't do it. As leaders and talent, we have to help people understand that.

We also have to help them understand that if you find yourself doing a job that you don't like, that's okay. Let's talk about it. Let's find something that does align with what you want to do, the skills you bring to the table, and the growth you would like to achieve. Sometimes, that could mean it's not within this organization. That's okay. I will support you. I've had long-standing relationships with people throughout my career. People who have followed me from one company to the next because they get that. I have their best interests, their growth and their development at heart, and what does it mean for them. They get it.

Sometimes, it means that it's not on my team or it means it's not within the organization, but it's still the right thing for them. I truly believe that talent these days and talent of the future need to align with that authenticity space, that personal passion. You then can move forward into the tactical aspects of what you need to grow and develop. The skill aspect of it needs to grow and develop but if those other pieces aren't in place first, the rest of it is not going to matter.

Interestingly, you mentioned all that great advice there because I have been working on a book on career development and helping people take ownership of their careers. I put a question out to my network. I've been asking people for the biggest mistakes they've made in their career and career advice. I put together a report on the top mistakes that people make in their careers based on polling everybody in my network. You touched on two of them. Two of the top five. One of which was chasing the money over everything else. When you put money at the top, it doesn't usually work out well.

The other one is staying in a job too long when you know it's no good for you and not speaking up and having a conversation with anybody because you're afraid of rocking the boat or change or whatever it may be. Many people shared that their biggest mistake was doing that. That report I'm going to make available soon. I'll do a separate episode about it. We won't go into it but I appreciate you bringing that up and you validated a couple of those. Last thing I'll ask you, Barbie. Speaking of books, I mentioned I'm writing a book about career ownership, which also aligns with what you said. You mentioned Brené Brown. What's a book that you highly recommend or has made a big impact on you or your life?

Dare to Lead, Extreme Ownership, and Radical Candor. Those are great books and more recent published books. I'm sure you're familiar with Joseph Michelli and his books. I spoke to him. He is writing a book about leadership during COVID-19. I'll be interested to see what he comes out with because his work is stellar. He's done such great work on how organizations have redefined service and their customer relationships. This will be interesting. That one I look forward to. Extreme Ownership I love because it reinforces many principles I believe in strongly of ownership clearly. Standard work and how variation is the enemy of standard work.

We often don't think about that in the HR space. We think about that in production, manufacturing, engineering facilities but the reality is, it's the same principle, regardless of the type of work or your functional area. If all you do is spend your time chasing outliers and variation, you're never going to get to the core and influence change and making anything better because you're constantly spinning your wheels. I love that book for that reason.

[bctt tweet="Leave your ego outside. Recognize that you don't know everything and that there's a lot of value in every single person's contributions." via="no"]

You gave us plenty. It's interesting you mentioned Extreme Ownership, by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin, former US Navy SEALs. I know that book and has been recommended many times to me in my network, in the entrepreneurial and sales world but I've never had anybody in the talent development world recommend that book to me. It's a great powerful book. You already gave some great advice. We've covered a lot of great topics. The last thing I'll mention is that you've been posting some videos, articles and things on LinkedIn. If people want to get in touch with you, I suppose that's probably the best place for them to go.

It is. I've got my email. I even have my cell phone on there, whatever. It's out there. It's on every signature. What I've had a few people say, “Are you serious? You're going to put your cellphone out there.” I'm like, “At this point, sure. Why not?”

What’s the worst that’s going to happen? If you enjoyed this and you want to hear more from Barbie, go connect with her, follow her on LinkedIn, get her cell phone number, text or call her appropriately. Barbie, this has been great. Thank you for spending time with us and sharing some of your insights, wisdom on culture, employee experience and trust. We've covered so much ground and I appreciate you coming on the show.

Thanks for having me. It was great fun.

• BIC Graphic
• LinkedIn – Barbie Winterbottom
• Brené Brown
• Dare to Lead
• Multipliers
• Extreme Ownership
• Radical Candor